Torre Talks Witchcraft, Advocacy, and Problem Solving Part 1

Katrina Mondragon, MS, LPC, LMHC and Special Guest, Torre!!!

Sponsored by Katrina Mondragon, PLLC (Est. 2016)

Join us as Torre Talks Witchcraft, Advocacy, Problem Solving and MORE on this week's episode of I Don't Know, streaming everywhere under the artist name katrinadragon

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Greetings, fellow humans. Katrina here. Uh with disclaimer. I'm a professional, not your professional, so nothing we're gonna talk about today. So we take us in medical legal otherwise advice. This podcast is purely for education and amusement. That's the disclaimer. And it's called I don't know. So I really don't know what we're gonna talk about today. This is Tori, though. Hi everyone. You wanna say a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Yeah, so my name is Tori Journey. I live in the Midwest area just east of St. Louis, what's called the Metro East Illinois region. So it's like south of Springfield in Illinois, just like literally I am 20 minutes from St. Louis. I am a pagan interfaith minister. I do a lot of outreach and advocacy work in the both local and national level of spiritual communities. And I'm also an environmental scientist and I'm studying engineering. I'm currently working on research in selenium volatility at my local university. So I do a whole hybrid duality lifestyle, spirituality science, and sort of where they meet is a lot of philosophical ways in which I get to live my life. So I've done a lot of teaching and public speaking in the community as well as freelance writing as I like to call it. Mostly a lot of sermonic pieces and culturally relevant news going on in the world. But yeah, that's pretty much me.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Nice. And so before we hit record, you were starting to say something about Salem, Massachusetts. I want to bring that back up now. I've actually been there. Have you ever been there?

SPEAKER_01 1:32

I have not. I excuse me, but I have gotten to do, I guess you could say I have worked out of Massachusetts, which is a fun thing for me to get to kind of like boast unofficially. One of the organizations I've done a lot of work with on the nonprofit level is, and I'm gonna try not to, it's so much of a name, Massachusetts Witch Hunt Justice Project is the whole thing. And basically they started out as a local podcast in the Massachusetts region, and they we were going they were going over the history and a lot of the sociopolitical impacts of people who were accused of witchcraft in the colonial days, and they found a lot of people who in their own kind of subcommunity were ancestors or descendants to these people, and these the you know a lot of the victims of the witch trials were their ancestors, and so it really came to bear that there was a huge social stigma put on a lot of these family lines, and as well as a number of new victims who were sort of just completely erased by history. And I mentioned earlier I'm a pig and interfaith minister. So one of the things that is really important to me is pluralism and multi-faith outreach and dialogue with you know different religious and spiritual communities. And I've practiced witchcraft for about 15 years now, and so specifically with the Massachusetts Witch Hunt Justice Project, I felt it was important that here I am, a modern day guy, kind of identifying with this thing, this entity, witchcraft, that would have that did put a lot of people to death in the past, right? And so for me, there is that connective tissue to get involved. And uh with that organization, we were able to recommend an amendment series to existing legislation in Massachusetts to basically update existing exoneration bills so that they would include new victims for recognition. And long-term goals with that is to have national recognition for both the pluralistic need for letting people be, because a lot of what happened in Salem and other localities in Massachusetts and the colonial region was it neighboring.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

It was root in a disappearance.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Was it neighboring kids and neighbor?

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Well, so it was definitely kind of what we see in the pop cultural views, but more so on a historic note, it really went beyond religious bigotry or even ostracism within a subcommunity of people and into mass hysteria. And I think that that's probably the prevailing component of a lot of motifs we've seen, like The Crucible. I don't know if you've ever seen that movie, but it's you know, the whole it's basically like a theatrical rendition of the tellings of the witch trials in Salem, Massachusetts. And it's known for a lot of misinformation, which it definitely has, but also really making that note known that there was a lot of hysteria to the way that, excuse me, losing my voice right as we start. There was a lot of hysteria in the ways in which religious authorities mixed their influence with sociopolitical views happening in the in the colonies. And that exacerbated an existing problem from places like England, where we see, I can't think of his name right now, but uh Matthew Hopkins. Matthew Hopkins, who was a he's sort of the the witch hunter of history. Like if you ever Google witch hunters or who was a part of the witch trials and exacerbating that, he comes up almost persistently because over in England there was a huge hysteria happening there too, especially going back to King James. So the the whole organizational side to that and kind of putting a nutshell into that was kind of for me a bit of a sojourn with history and being like, you know, if I were born at any other time, and I'd like to think my beliefs in some version of myself, if I existed before, thought similarly. And so it's it's an interesting reflection in my own life to have thought, well, maybe the maybe that means I should do something about this because it's an existing problem. Yeah, as you fits for exactly, you know, there there's soil to put your hands into and actually make something grow instead of just like tattered history. And I'm really big about that sort of advocacy in my own life because as a spiritualist, I went through a whole sort of personal journey to find my identity, and it was really important that I felt integrity within that process. And for me, that meant you know, my family is one belief system. How do I identify with a new one and us reconcile, you know, our principal differences and who we how do you identify?

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Is it like a warlock or a witch, or just I practice witchcraft?

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yeah, so the the prevailing identity for me throughout my life has been as just a traditional witch. Within that explanation, I would say I do a lot of practices around herbalism and around nature itself. So my version of witchcraft, and there's a huge cadre. I know you have some literature that'll kind of speak to this. Uh, there's a huge cadre. And so for me, it's about an eco-spiritual identity and path where I can combine that scientific background and foreknowledge about what I see before me, and uh use my spirituality to reflect on that on a more philosophic level. So there's a huge level or component of my faith dynamics where it's simply just ecological activism, you know, where I'm just out in nature doing gardening or conservation work or sustainability work, you know, that sort of line of it.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

But I just want to bring some orchids back to life over here.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Well, you said oh where are they? I couldn't see them.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Orchids, oh, they're kind of hidden by the light, but they are right there.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

I think you may have shown me those before.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Yeah, I have orchids that have been surviving and then thriving and then not doing so well, and then they come back again.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

That that sounds about right for orchids. Yeah, yeah, we did talk about this a little bit. I'm having a flashback. But yeah, so to the identity question, I really do just identify as a witch or a pagan. Both me and my husband, Jason, we uh we're both of that same sort of like path. And we've had a lot of discussions around as we get older and there's more depth to what it means to be a person and to have more experience just as you go. It's hard to kind of just say I'm a witch. It feels like it deserves who I am deserves more of an ambiguous or bigger, broader term. But which still feels right for me in my life and the the the types of practices I imbue into my spirituality.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

I would say practical, which was something I would identify as as well, the practical side of it being like, like you mentioned, I have literature. So when I was in Salem, there was this one book that really stood out. It was a spell a day, 365 easy spells, rituals, and magic for everyday life that came out to be really useful for me because I am random about it. I don't do it religiously, I just do it randomly. Yeah. And then uh this is the house witch. So this is another good one that talks about just different ways to use your home and garden uh to practice uh what uh what some describe as witchcraft, and what I would say magic, I want to know your definition of this too. I define magic as science that we just don't necessarily understand yet.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

What do you define magic as I give magic that weight, like as a concept, I definitely agree with that, especially because of my background, right? From I'm certified in horticulture, I'm about to get my bachelor's in environmental science, and I'm about halfway through a bachelor's in engineering. So I love science. I'm you know, I eat, breathe, and do everything else based on science, but also concepts of magic. And what that means to me, I think, is that encapsulating view of that there's a lot of misunderstanding around what it means to be alive, to be this particular kind of creature walking the earth alongside these others. And I think that there's a lot of depth that's still needed for that view of it. But for me, I would say I'm very religious about my idea of magic and that I liken it to philosophical concepts, but also very much just sort of biblical ideas for a lack of better word. Not that it's rooted in Christianity, but in the same grandeur, I'd say. And what I mean is, you know, if you look at the Tao, right, of Tao Beijing, they talk about how the Tao it encompasses, but it does not conform to a lot of things. So it pervades. And what I think that that logic tells us about like forces like that, like magic or even the Holy Spirit on a religious level, is that there's some component of whether you want to call it soul, fire in the head, or bodhisattva, even like whatever you're gonna refer to it as, magic is also getting at that component.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

I call it energy.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Yeah, yeah. And for me, I think energy is probably what I've what I've used in actual context more than anything else. But as a system, I think magic is really getting at the consciousness around transformation. You know, it's not that we are gatekeepers of transformation, right? Nature shows us all things have the potentiality of change within them, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Change is the only constant of her.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Yeah, exactly. And really everything around us is just some symbolic emphasis of how change can go, right? Humans, we see that on a more logical level, but if you look at like a like take the I was listening to the story about the salmon, you know, how they go back upstream and everything just the other day on a like total nerd out. And I thought about like how that really has its own example of transformation through nature, it's telling us to go back to where we started.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

You know, against the those who don't know about the salmon, can you explain that like the reader's digest version of what they do?

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So and this is, you know, I I wouldn't say I'm a salmon expert, but I was watching a video about it, and it's that whole story about how salmon are born in rivers and they're born upstream and they travel downstream, they make it out to the ocean, and they get really fat once they get to the ocean because there's more energy. It's a larger, more vivant sort of ecosystem, a lot of calories down there. Um, and so for the first time, they're not constricted by the river. And it was actually this other sort of like STEM guy who's talking about how it drives him nuts because salmon, if you think about an ecological niche, the reason an animal does what it does and you know how we thrive versus what's like non non-essential as a creature. Why would an animal do what it does if it caused a calorie deficit, right? Like if it costs more energy than you're gonna gain naturally, you probably wouldn't do it. But the salmon, it'll go out to the ocean, it'll get really fat, live its life, and then when it's ready to reproduce, it'll actually come back to the within a hundred feet, the guy said, of where they were born. And so they have to swim up river, often against waterfalls. So that's sort of gravity-defying act as a fish, a ladder climbing a waterfall and getting back upwards, and that consumes a lot of energy. And why do it at all if it's going to be such an expensive process? And you know, the salmon itself is its own archetype of that that reason, that philosophy. And so that's like one of the many, I would say, multitude examples you could pull for why nature represents that transformation. That was just like something recent on my mind, I would say. But back to like I think the core of that, yeah, magic is really that process of change for me. And I would say that about mundane things as much as extraordinary things.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Do you have an example?

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Yeah, so a good one is the nonprofit work and the advocacy. I if I'm a person as a spiritualist, it's a value for me to believe change is a component of how the world gets better or worse. Then an individual with free will, who maybe is a practice, a practitioner of magic, would look at that and go, okay, well, then I need to help force that change. You know, I need to help empower the kind of good change we're looking for, the good kind. And nonprofit work really helps me do that. I think it's a type of practical magic in and of itself. I for example, very much in context, some organizations I'm involved with right now is the Fuller Dome Center for Spirituality and Sustainability. It's a multi-faith center located at SIUE campus, which is Southern Illinois University in Edwardsville. And I've been working there for about a year and a half now, and one of the things I've gotten to do with them is restructure programming at this multi-faith center to really reflect the type of diversity at the campus itself, which sort of paralleling with our small microcosm efforts is the whole university going, we need better engagement with our international community. You know, so there's this macrocosm of, you know, a behemoth of a school happening around our little multi-faith organization. And the kind of energy I can bring to that type of change is a unique energy that this place hasn't seen before. That the people who have served you know 10, 15, 20 years helping this organization grow are looking for that fresh energy. And they may not know who's coming to the table, which is, I think, where a lot of my specialty comes into play because I've always tried to be someone who is a problem solver and very much tackles the hard problems that I know typically people don't want to do, right? Crunching the numbers or looking at data and compiling it, or doing the groundwork of talking to each and every member of a situation.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

Things that require attention to detail.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Exactly. And I think that my passion gives me that work and who I am identity-wise as an individual, my personality, it aids itself to make that work really unique, really efficient. And so I'm able to actually like sort of help these organizations amplify change quicker than they really thought was probable or possible. And so, like with them, we've invited Buddhist monks to come and teach and do meditations. We've invited experts to teach Qui Gong and Tai Chi, a lot of practices that are important to eastern-minded people, uh, whether that's culturally or just philosophically. What do you know about mindfulness?

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Uh finish your thought, but then I want to know about mindfulness from you. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

But another good example, and that's just one organization, and feeling like I'm able to give my very personable self, very personable efforts to something. But I also work for Rio Khain, which is this druid Indo-European organization that spans from the US to Germany, to France, to Australia, to a lot of regions around the world. And we have over 800 members, and I serve as the members' advocate on the board of directors. And I stepped into that role because I was a part of this community, just sort of learning my own culture and traditions on the Celtic level. But there was this moment where in my own life I wanted to start a nonprofit, very similar to something like that, but more on the STEM side of it, where people could do science and eco-spirituality and spirituality all kind of sort of together. And I heard advice from this sort of nonprofit coach who was like, Well, if you can't beat them, join them, is the mentality, you know, and go to a place that is doing that work and doing it well. And not that it was a competition to beat anybody at, but for me, it was like, well, if I can't really do it alone and I don't have the resources, maybe I'm left to give what I have to another location or place, you know. And so working with ADF, it's been really monumental for me because it's the the deep sort of pagan representation and spiritual resources that I've looked to gain as a person, but also to offer other people. And um actually before this video chat, I just got out of our annual meeting where I got to meet a lot of members, and as a board of directors, we answered a lot of questions and created a lot of vision in people's minds about what comes next for us as a community, and that's really pivotal for me. That I think to me, that's what I define or interpret magical acts to be is that's real change in the real world because of soul, because of passion, because of willpower. Creativity. And that's something I get to do with a lot of other stakeholders and important, hardworking people in the in those communities. So for me, that's kind of like where what I mean by like I have a whole spiritual practice. I do spells, I do herbal, uh, herbalism stuff, I do a lot of stuff that you would expect as a witch. But I've grown to a place where those aren't maybe the exciting thing about being a witch. It's how you can interpret reality and life to be something more than just forced on you, you know, evident, and uh to really have like a a a stake in the matrix, as it were.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Nice.